Interview FriendsWithYou｜ "Ocean: Temple of the Sacred Heart"

——FriendsWithYou started in 2002, how did it start?

In the SAM 90s, through friends at Rave, we met and founded FriendsWithYou as a conceptual art movement. The beginning was like a hippie movement for us, embodies the main beliefs of the rave scene, PLUR (abbreviation of peace, love, unity and respect). From the beginning, I wanted to create a new way of spirituality that suits the present age. Also, the idea of using art as a healing tool, like the coined word <psycho magic> created by Alexandro Jodorowsky, was at the center of his creation. We hoped that the power of the universe would be on our side, and based on the idea that everything in the universe was FriendsWithYou, we wanted to create a healing art that could fight the loneliness that was approaching.

TURY For the next 23 years, we are still working together. At first, I started by co-drawing paintings, but since there was no clear methodology yet, I started making soft sculptures to sell as stuffed animals. And I learned that they have magical power to bring out the potential of their owners.

——What is FriendsWithYou're important to create your work?

TURY I think one of the fun things about what we are doing is to convey a deeper message using the modeling and method of expression like a young child. As an artist, STANCE is not to let go of the sense of surprise like a child, but to get inspiration from the world. That is why I have always resisted the idea that in order to function as a member of society, I should not be surprised or excited about life. Originally, we have been cherishing it as a way to deal with it in our lives, but we would like to share it with the world. Even if you feel like you want to play with whimsical, happy and excited, you can be excited all day.

Growing up in SAM Florida, I had a rough childhood, and TURY had a lot of adversity and both were forced to leave home at the age of 14. Therefore, I had to grow up earlier than people. That's why, even as I grow up, I think I have left a lot of space for something that can play, dream, look at the blue sky, and serve as an example for someone. We believe that play is sacred, that it is free to be surprised or dream like a child, and that everyone has big dreams, so we incorporate love, hope, curiosity and play as the main elements in every work.

——Tell us a little bit about each child. The memory of the first experience of the joy of creation.

SAM It was violent and rough, but I think it was a tough child. It was a lot of trouble and I was always involved in a lot of things. Florida, where I grew up, was like a swamp like William Golding, King of the Flies. It was dark and I survived desperately. It is in contrast to our lives today, working as warriors for love and peace (laughs). At that time, I was a mystery, but I broke the toys with tools and bats and melted them with the heat of the light bulb that I had in the middle of the night to make a strange lump of plastic.

TURY The most vivid memory of childhood is that I created with my brother in Cuba where I grew up. Using what I found in the backyard, I made an elaborate structure, and based on it, I developed a story about bricolage.

——His solo exhibition "Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart" focuses on new paintings and sculptures on the theme of the imaginary myth "Ocean". What kind of idea did you come from?

SAM "Ocean" is a series of myths that express neo-naturalistic ideas for making our relationship with people, ourselves, and the living earth more intimate. This concept was born from the desire to create a new myth that unites people so that we can explain what we have done so far. In other words, it is a modern arrangement of the religion of the beginning, in which all religions and nations, abandoning all previous ideas and turning people back to themselves, to Mother Nature and the gods of origin. In the first place, we come from the sea, almost made of seawater components, and we have a heart that beats like waves.

TURY It is also an effort to change the name of the Earth to "Ocean" and rewrite the history that we have called the Earth where we live. I feel that modern history prioritizes human beings over nature. In the first place, Earth is blue and does not exist as a brown planet. In the same way, I wanted to present a myth of a new framework that suits ethics in an ecosystem that is more than ourselves. In order to review where we are now and the future, we have a desire to return to a more holistic way of thinking about nature as a whole, and to re-adjust human power dynamics with the Earth.

——The animism that flows into FriendsWithYou's themes and works has long been popular in Japan, including Asia, but are there any parts influenced by such Asian culture?

SAM animism, that is, the idea that everything has a soul, is at the heart of our main idea that the universe is on your side, the theme of every work, and I love to play with this idea. And Japan has become a great inspiration for us. The way we use symbols and characters to evoke emotions and inspire people is at the core of our creation.

TURY Despite being deeply influenced, when it comes to animism, I am very influenced by the Jorbaism, a very primitive religious system rooted in animism such as religion and natural phenomena in West Africa that my mother practiced in Cuba.

——You are two people who literally make works together without sharing their roles. What is the first step?

Sometimes it starts with a TURY conversation, sometimes you sit together and start drawing. We have both real conversations and visual communication. For example, “Have you ever read about this myth?” It's great to get used to the wave of creativity, sharing ideas and remixing ideas together, and collaboration is very interesting. It's the feeling of diving into the sea with two people and watching how far it flows.

Both SAMs have a spring of inspiration that does not die (laughs). You can also read myths, see art, and bring your life experiences, meditation, experimentation, and ideas from research into your work. By working with artists as powerful as you, you can realize ideas and visions that have not yet been fully shaped. I think it's great to be able to create magical phrases by doing it together, and to be able to express the fullest of what is in you, or to embody your dreams in an unexpected way.

——By the way, how do you know it was completed?　Can your opinion break?

The moment when both SAMs are convinced is the moment of completion. If you don't like us, you won't be able to send it out to the world. We often encounter difficult situations that we cannot understand alone. At that time, we share opinions with each other, push forward ideas, and shape them. There are always various ideas swirling, so it's a really exciting adventure to complete it as a beautiful exhibition like this.

TURY Of course, we will discuss whether or not the expression is valuable to us. Because you have passion, sometimes you can be emotional. However, over the course of 23 years, I feel that I have been able to find ways to talk more positively about each other's opinions and build new things.

——How did you overcome it when you lost confidence or hit a wall?

Show the truth and try. I think that's one of the easiest ways to deal with it. And you need to get used to failure or being unperfect. Commit to the general direction, just look positive every day, show up, do your best, take a shower, eat rice, work out, and try again until it works. Working on ideas with beliefs leads to big ideas. So, I don't think the concept of failure exists. Knowledge is gained before failure, and all interactions are valued.

SAM We don’t always try to make things perfect. For there is a rough part, an ugly part, sometimes humanness, and mysterious beauty. As things become digitized and perfect and beautiful, people will become attracted to things that are dirty, coarse, and ugly moments.

——How do you both define art?

TURY The act of expressing what flows in human activities.

A living dialogue of mankind presented as an idea and a creation.

——What is it necessary to make a free and unbiased expression?

SAM Create your heart without fear.

Truly willing to fail.

——Why do you express yourself in a wide range of fields, genres, and methods, including immersive installations, parades, sculptures, paintings, animations, live performances, and collaborations with brands?

TURY I always thought that the idea that in order to create powerful art, I had to stay alone in the studio as an artist was a thing of the past. In order to create new contemporary and futuristic art, we need a more powerful brain. That's why the idea of engaging artists, engineers, philosophers, and other collaborators was a natural and easy way for us, who are always collaborating together. I also think that the idea that solo artists are the only one who creates excellent art is something like a little myth.

I want to touch everyone, from the world of SAM fine art to small children to academics and simple people. Whether it's an idea or a dream, welcome. Various types of works are tools for meeting people in different places. Even if we don’t collaborate directly, the people who participate in our community are equally interested in diversifying and evolving art. And there is a united bond that restores power to all of our stories. That’s the source of the idea for Ocean. We are not only the creators of the story, but also the artists of the story. And it is every artist who creates a new world, a planet, our story. The artist has an idea, and the idea has power. So, I believe that if we work together, we can make something really powerful.

——What was your impression of actually experiencing the exhibition at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO?

More than Truly Expectations. I think it's really a magical space. I am very happy to be able to convey such a feeling that we are in a mysterious other space-time and space that makes no sense in this world, but surely it belongs to this world. What we are always trying to create is an unforgettable experience, but I am convinced that this exhibition will definitely bring it.

SAM I'm really happy to be able to gather in this space for the past few years and be present in a place for a beautiful experience. I am full of joy and love, witnessing the ideas and thoughts contained in each of them, everything necessary to create them, and the power and excitement created by the unity of them.

——What kind of feedback would you like to receive from the audience?

The feedback from those who have experienced TURY art is very interesting. For us, art is almost like an experiment, experimenting with ideas to see how people feel, how they sympathize, and how they resonate. So, if you have feedback, you can pay even more attention to what it looks like. Focusing on how people interact with art is actually a big part of our art. There is the word "Aesthetics of Relationships", but the experience that the viewer comes to PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO and interacts with the work is the real art we think of.

Sam, right? We’re posting online, but we don’t know how people who see it actually feel. So, I'm always happy when people see art and express to us what they really experienced art and felt. Good things, bad things, ugly things, all emotions are the best feedback.

——What impression did you have at Shibuya PARCO during this exhibition?

I love PARCO, a symbolic landmark of SAM Tokyo and Shibuya!　I am very pleased to have given you the opportunity to experience our art, and I am very grateful to NANZUKA and his family for amazingly smart, kind and supportive of us.

I have come to play many times before the TURY renewal. I saw a lot of wonderful works in galleries and museums. PARCO is always a place full of stimulus that proves that products need art and design, and encourages such manufacturing.

——How do you plan to spend your time in Tokyo on this visit?

I want to blend into the city of TURY Tokyo, enjoy being in this place, eat a lot of delicious food, and go to the museum. For us from a country on the other side of the planet, it is very exciting and interesting to know what kind of cultural movement is there.

SAM I would like to go to Keiichi Tanaami's large-scale solo exhibition "The Adventure of Memory of Keiichi Tanaami" which passed away the other day. I was really happy to see him and loved him. I will also go to the Mori Art Museum's "Louise Bourgeois Exhibition: When I came back from hell, it was wonderful." This time, I have a lot of friends who are comrades from Los Angeles, so I would be happy if I could see them and enjoy them in various ways. There are a lot of delicious and delicious foods in Japan, and I want to experience Japanese culture and get inspiration again.

FriendsWithYou, an art collective based in Los Angeles. Spreading their unifying message of 'Magic,' 'Luck,' and 'Friendship,' they have been creating interactive art that fosters new human connections. Their solo exhibition 'Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart' was held at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO.

In this exhibition, they’ve created a fictional myth called 'The Book of OCEAN,' which commemorates the heroes who devoted their lives to the algorithmic war to liberate humans from the various devices that control us and return us to nature. Beneath the pop, KAWAII, and playful world they show lies a message: to remind us of Earth’s original form as a planet of oceans and to unite all living beings that inhabit it. Samuel Albert Borkson (referred to as SAM), born in Florida, and Arturo Sandoval III (referred to as TURY), born in Cuba, discuss their works that are completed through the experience of the viewers.

——Since FriendsWithYou started in 2002, could you share how the two of you met and how your collaboration began?

SAM We met through friends by going to raves in the 90s and founded FriendsWithYou as a conceptual art movement. In the beginning, it was kind of our hippie movement that epitomized the main tenets of the rave scene, PLUR: peace, love, unity, respect. We wanted to create new modes of spirituality for modern times. The idea of using art as a tool for healing, as in the term “psychomagic” coined by Alejandro Jodorowsky, has also been central to our creative process. We invoked the power of the universe to be conspiring in our favor and with the idea that everything in the universe is FriendsWithYou. And our goal was to battle the looming isolation we felt by creating healing art.

TURY Twenty-three years have passed since then and we are still working together. We started out by collaboration on paintings, but we didn’t yet have a clear methodology, so we began making soft sculptures, which we sold as plush toys. Then we discovered that those were in turn imbued with magical powers as a way of helping the owners manifest their own potential.

——What do you value in the creation of your work?

TURY I think one of the things that makes our work interesting is to use childlike figuration and mannerism to communicate deeper messages. Our stance as artists is that we don't let go of the child's wonder and to be inspired by the world. We’ve always resisted the notion that to be a functional member of society, you must not have your sense of wonder and excitement about life. It is something important that we have always tried to hold onto as our own way of coping with our existence and we want to bring it to the world, that it's okay to feel whimsy, happy, excited, wanting to play and being thrilled all day long.

SAM Growing up in Florida, I had a pretty rough childhood and TURY also had a lot of adversity and both of us had to leave home at the age of14. As young kids, we had to grow up quicker than others. Maybe that's why, now, in our adult life, we have left a lot of space to play, dreaming, looking at the blue sky, and thinking, something that can be examples and models for the rest of the world. We believe that play is holy, that wonder and dreaming like children is freedom, and that everyone has a huge dream inside of them, so we incorporate love, hope, curiosity, and play as the main ingredients of every artwork.

——Please tell us a little about each of your childhoods and also about your first memory of experiencing the joy of creation?

SAM I think I was pretty violent, but I was tough. There was a lot of trouble, always involved in all sorts of them. I grew up in Florida, which was kind of a swamp, like William Golding's “Lord of the Flies”. It was dark time and I was just trying to survive. It's a stark contrast to our lives today, where we are active warriors for love and peace. In those days, strangely enough, I would break toys with tools and bats and melt them together with the heat of a light bulb I had in the middle of the night to make strange plastic blobs.

TURY The most vivid childhood memories of creation were with my brother in Cuba, where I was raised. We would build these elaborate constructions in the backyard with found objects and developed an entire story line about the bricolages.

——Your solo exhibition “Ocean - Temple of the Sacred Heart” focuses on new paintings and sculptures based on the imaginary myth “Ocean”. Could you tell us about the ideas that inspired these works and how they developed?

SAM “Ocean” is a series of myths that represent a neo-naturalistic idea to bring people closer to their relationship with themselves and our living planet. The idea of “Ocean” came from us with a desire to create a new mythology that would unite people in a way that would explain what we have been doing the whole time. In other words, we are putting a modern spin on the origins of religion, focusing on beginnings, which is to throw out all previous ideas from all religions and countries and bring humans back to ourselves, back to Mother Nature and the gods of our origin. To begin with, we come from the sea, we are mostly made of seawater, and we have a heart that beats like a wave.

TURY It is also an effort to correct and rewrite the history of calling the earth we live on to “Ocean”. I feel that modern history prioritizes humans over nature. In the first place, the earth is blue, and there was never a brown planet, was there? In the same way, we wanted to present the myth of a new framework that aligns with our ethics in an ecosystem that goes beyond its current understanding. In order to rethink where we are and what the future holds, we wanted to return to a more holistic view of nature as a whole and realign human power dynamics with the planet.

——Animism, a theme that runs through FriendsWithYou's work, seems to resonate with Asian culture, including Japan. How do you think this culture has influenced you both?

SAM It has been a huge inspiration—the idea of animism, that everything has a soul and that the universe is acting in your favor, is at the heart of our main idea, the core of all our work, and we love playing with this idea. Japan has also been a great inspiration to us. Using symbols and characters to evoke emotions and inspire people is at the core of what we do.

TURY Although deeply influenced, when it comes to animism, I am very much influenced by Yoruba religion of West Africa, which my mother practiced in Cuba, and a very primitive belief system rooted in an animistic view of natural phenomenon, etc.

——The two of you literally work together on a piece of art without sharing roles, what is the first step like?

TURY Sometimes it starts with a conversation, other times we sit down and start drawing. We communicate both verbally and visually. We share references and ask each other, for example, “Have you heard about this myth?” And so on. It is amazing to get so comfortable with our creative wave of sharing each idea and remixing ideas together, and the collaborative process is very interesting. It is exactly the feeling of jumping into the ocean and seeing where the currents take you.

SAM Yes, it is. We both come with very fertile spring of inspiration. Each of us may bring to the work new myths we have read, art we have seen, experiences we have had in life, thoughts we have had from meditation, from experiments and research, etc. Working with another artist as powerful as myself allows me to realize ideas and visions that aren’t fully formed. It is wonderful that together, we can create new magical phrases and bring out the fullest expression of what’s inside us, often manifesting dreams in unexpected ways.

——By the way, how do you know the work is finished? Do you sometimes have disagreements?

SAM When we both like it because we both have to love it for it to go out into the world. Sometimes we run into difficult situations that we can’t figure it out on our own. In those cases, we push each other sharing ideas and mold them. So it's always an exciting adventure to see all the different ideas swirl together to create this beautiful show.

TURY Of course there are arguments where we try to express what is valuable to us. Sometimes we get emotional because we're passionate about it. But I feel that over the course of 23 years, we have found a way to talk about things in a more positive and mutually respectful way that builds something new.

——When you have lost confidence or hit a wall, how have you overcome it?

TURY I feel like showing up and trying is the one of the easiest ways to deal with that. And you have to get comfortable with failing and not being perfect. We are committed to a general direction: just be positive every day, show up, do your best, shower, eat dinner, work out, and try again until it works out. Having faith in the commitment to an idea leads to bigger ideas. That's why I don't believe in the concept of failure. We gain knowledge beyond failure, and we see value in every interaction.

SAM We don't always try to make things perfect. Because there is beauty in rough edges, ugliness, sometimes in humanity, and in strangeness. As things become more digitized, perfect, and beautiful, I think people will be attracted to things that are messy, have rough edges, and show moments of ugliness.

——How do you define art?

TURY Any human activity that channels what is undeniable to our will.

SAM Living dialogue of humanity presented as these ideas and creations.

——What do you believe is necessary for free and unbiased artistic expression?

SAM Just create from your heart with no fear!

TURY The will to fail.

——Why you work in a wide variety of fields, genres, and methods, including immersive installations, parades, sculptures, paintings, animations, live performances, and collaborations with brands?

TURY I have always thought that the idea that to make powerful art, an artist must be alone in the studio is outdated. In order to create truly modern and futuristic art, you need an even more powerful brain. So the idea of involving other artists, engineers, philosophers, and other collaborators was being a natural and doable form for us, as we have always collaborated together. I also think that the idea that artist as a solo are the only ones who create great art is also now a bit of a myth.

SAM We want to touch the whole world from the fine art to everyone, from small children, to the most academics, to the most humble or simple people.". Everyone is welcome into our ideas and dreams. So different types of works reach people in different ways. Even if we are not collaborating directly, those who join our community are equally interested in diversifying and pushing further their art works. And there is a unifying thread that return the power to all of our stories. That is a big part of the idea for “Ocean”. We are not only creators, we are artists inside of the story. And it is all artist and our stories that creates a new world, a new planet. Artists have ideas, and those ideas have power. So I believe that if we work together we can make something really powerful.

——How was the experience of your solo exhibition at PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO?

TURY Super excited this looks amazing it's beyond our expectations. It’s beyond our expectations and a truly magical space. I felt the ethereal other time and space, which doesn't make sense in this world, but it definitely is of this world, that feeling wanted to convey. We always aim for creating a memorable experience, and we are confident that this exhibition will definitely bring that.

SAM I am so happy to be able to be see this space where all of our works from the past few years come together to becoming a beautiful experience. I'm so proud of us and what we've made and when I see it together and witness the power, all the ideas and feelings that go into each piece and all that it takes for us to create it, it really fills me with joy and love.

——What do you think is the best feedback from the people who view your work?

TURY We always find it fascinating to hear how people experience our art. For us, art is almost like an experiment, trying out ideas and seeing how people feel, how they relate to it, how it sits with them. So when we get feedback, we can pay even more attention to what it looks like. Focusing on how people interact with art is a huge part of our art. There is a term called “relational aesthetics,” and we think real art is an actual experience created when viewers come to PARCO MUSEUM TOKYO and interact with the artwork.

SAM Yeah. We post our works online, but we cannot know how the people who see them actually experience. So it is always nice when people who see our art and experience them express to us what they feel. The good, the bad, the ugly, any emotion is the best feedback.

——What impressions do you have of Shibuya PARCO?

SAM We love PARCO, a definitive landmark of Tokyo and Shibuya! We are so happy about the opportunity for people to get experience our art here and we are also very grateful to NANZUKA family who are amazingly smart, kind and supportive of us.

TURY We have visited PARCO so many times even before it’s renewal. I have seen many great works in the galleries and museums, and PARCO has always been an inspiring place that proves that products need art and design, and encourages the creation of such.

——Do you have any anecdotes about this trip to Japan?

TURY I plan to blend in with the city of Tokyo, enjoy being here, eat lots of good food, and visit museums. For those of us who come from countries on opposite sides of the world, it is very exciting and interesting to know how the culture operates.

SAM We are planning to go to “Keiichi Tanaami: Adventure of Memory,” a large-scale solo exhibition by Keiichi Tanaami, who recently passed away. We were really happy to meet him and loved him so much. We also thinking about going to “Louise Bourgeois: I have been to hell and back. And let me tell you, it was wonderful” at the Mori Art Museum. This time many of our friends came from L.A., so we will hang along and show them new things. We will enjoy delicious foods in Japan, and hope to be inspired again by its culture.